Dear Professor Tran Van Tho, I know that you are from Quang Nam but have studied, researched and worked for more than half a century in Japan. Could you please share with Dan Tri readers a few things about your relationship with the Land of the Rising Sun? - This is a random story. When I was in my final year of high school in Hoi An, Quang Nam, a friend invited me to go to Saigon (now Ho Chi Minh City) to continue studying after passing the Baccalaureate II exam. In the late 1960s in my hometown, those who passed the Baccalaureate were already very educated. I also intended to study until there and then think about it later. But my friend said, "Just go to Saigon, I will find you a job, then you can study and work at the same time." In the context of the country still at war and facing many difficulties, for young people like me, going from my hometown in the Central countryside to Saigon could be considered as going to... study abroad. At first, I entered the Faculty of Arts, planning to study a preparatory year, then take the entrance exam to the Pedagogical University with a 3-year program. If I graduated from the Pedagogical University, I could be assigned to teach at a secondary school, which is now a high school. That was the planned path. Until one fateful afternoon, I was walking on Le Thanh Ton Street where the Ministryof Education of the Saigon government was located, and saw many people reading an announcement in front of the Ministry's gate. I stopped my bike out of curiosity, looked around to see what was going on, and found out that everyone was reading an announcement about the Japanese government recruiting foreign students and granting scholarships to study in Japan. I looked at the exam requirements, and saw that I could meet them, so I went home to try to apply. The Ministry of Education pre-selected and interviewed candidates, then sent the list to the Japanese Embassy. After that, the Japanese side organized the exam. This exam was applied to all countries in the Southeast Asian region, and the Japanese side recruited 6 people from each country; 3 students studied natural sciences, 3 students studied social sciences. I was lucky to be accepted. So within a year, I went from being a poor student to studying abroad twice, the first time from Quang Nam to Saigon and the second time to Japan. My life took a big turn, a luck that I never dreamed of.

From the above turning point, why did you choose to study and research economics, becoming a Professor of Economics? - When I went to Japan, I applied to study social sciences . I love literature, if I were in Vietnam, I would study this major and then graduate from university to teach Literature at high school level. But I thought it would be difficult to study literature abroad, because you have to be good at languages, especially classical literature. So I decided to study economics for the following reasons: First, at that time, Vietnam was still at war, so I thought that when peace was restored, my homeland would need economic experts to serve the country's reconstruction. Second, I went to Japan in April 1968, when Japan was celebrating the 100th anniversary of the Meiji Restoration and was developing very strongly, like a rising dragon with an average growth rate of 10% per year.

Japan's development process began during the Meiji Restoration, but due to the limitations of the times (information, means and time to absorb the advances of the civilized world , etc.), and because it had to go through many wars, Japan had to wait until the 1970s to achieve the goal of catching up with the advanced Western countries. Rising from a country devastated in World War II, within just 10 years Japan recovered to its pre-war high level of development, followed by a spectacular 18-year period of development (1955-1973) that completely changed the lives of its people and Japan's position on the international stage. I myself and many people in the country at that time also knew about high-quality Japanese electronic products, Honda cars, etc. The year 1968, when I went to Japan, marked the year Japan surpassed West Germany to become the second largest economy in the world. Drawing on experiences through directly witnessing Japan's spectacular development is the main reason why I am interested in and want to study economics. What was your biggest impression during your first days studying abroad in Japan? - Like many other international students, I found everything strange and tried to integrate into the new environment. I first came to Japan during the cherry blossom season, so the scenery was very beautiful and impressive. At that time, there was an event that also greatly influenced my thinking. That was the awarding of the Nobel Prize for Literature to the writer Kawabata Yasunari in 1968. This event made me interested in his works and soon felt close to the Japanese spirit and culture.

There have been many studies on Japan's success in the world. According to the Professor, what is the most comprehensive reason that can be used as a reference for countries that come after Japan? - This is a very good question. Each person, depending on their perspective, will give different answers. Personally, I have tried to find the most comprehensive reason that can be used as a reference for countries that come after Japan, and I have found a keyword: "social capacity". In other words, the capacity and qualities of the elements that make up society, specifically politicians , officials, businessmen, intellectuals and the working class. These elements of Japan have the qualities and abilities that help the country's development, and Japan also has mechanisms to combine these elements into a block that can support and complement each other, creating a strong social capacity. First of all, about politicians , that is, those who hold high-ranking leadership positions, their outstanding qualities are the ability to lead and guide the country, vision for the big picture, knowing how to use talented people, and the ability to form a high consensus among the people.

Regarding officials , those who participate in the central and local government apparatus, which in Vietnam today are those holding positions at the deputy minister level and below, their qualities are administrative management capacity, sense of responsibility, civil servant ethics, and impartiality. An official can become a politician through elections or be a professional official for life (until retirement). In Japan, to become an official and participate in the government apparatus, one must first pass a nationwide selection exam. These exams in Japan are organized annually in a very systematic manner, not by each ministry organizing its own exam but by the Personnel Institute, a state agency independent of the ministries organizing the exams. They have three exams: the exam for selecting state officials of type I (high level) and the exam for selecting officials of type II, type III. Those who pass the exam of type I will be trained to become officials at the department head, deputy minister level... in the future. As for people of type II and type III, they do specialized work such as accounting, clerical work, translation work, etc. If type II and type III officials demonstrate good ability during their work, they can be promoted to type I. The type I recruitment exam is held every year in June. The candidates are mainly students in their fourth year at universities. Every year, Japan selects a few thousand type I officials. The number of candidates can be dozens of times higher than the number of successful candidates, so this is a fiercely competitive exam. Successful candidates have the right to choose their workplace, but some ministries have so many candidates that candidates have to take an additional exam, and only after passing it can they officially become civil servants of that ministry. Because they have to go through such difficult exams, becoming an official is a great source of pride. Japan has a team of good officials who generally possess the necessary ethics thanks to a strict recruitment system, a systematic training system, and good treatment. Many Japanese officials have become heroic figures during the country's miraculous development period. 30 years ago, I recommended that Vietnam adopt Japan's experience in organizing nationwide civil servant examinations, but it is unclear why ministries still organize their own examinations.

The next factor is the entrepreneur . The necessary quality of an entrepreneur is the entrepreneurial spirit, including the spirit of adventure, the effort to explore new markets, new materials, new technologies and management methods, along with the ability to withstand risks. Another important quality of an entrepreneur is business ethics. Business people seek profits, but it is genuine profits, not seeking special benefits, not seeking relationships with officials and politicians to "beg - give". In Japan, many companies were established before World War II but grew strong in the post-war period such as Toyota, Hitachi, Canon, Panasonic, Shiseido... Some companies were established after the war and grew rapidly such as Sony, Honda, Sanyo... These two groups of companies are both typical businesses that contributed to the miraculous development of the period 1955-1973. In addition to the above mentioned entrepreneurial spirit, the leaders of these companies always show a high sense of responsibility towards the country and people, and have great ambitions. For example, Ibuka Masaru, co-founder of Sony, in his speech at the company's founding ceremony in 1946, said "we must use the power of technology to contribute to the revival of our country". It can be said that Japanese entrepreneurs are the pioneers who helped Japan rise to power. Today, the Japanese still tell touching and inspiring stories about Japan's great entrepreneurs. In early July, for the first time, a businessman was chosen to be printed on Japanese currency and the highest denomination bill (10,000 Yen). This businessman is Shibusawa Eiichi (1840-1931). He is considered by history to be the founder of modern Japanese economy, the father of Japanese capitalism, because he pioneered the development of many new economic sectors, established many businesses that are the predecessors of many typical companies today. Moreover, he was also the one who established business ethics, combined public and private interests, creating a model of the spirit of serving society of enterprises.

For intellectuals , the necessary qualities are a high level of interest in national issues, current events and socio-economic realities, efforts to research and find measures to contribute to improving society, contributing to economic development, efforts to use one's knowledge to "enlighten the people". Finally, for workers , the necessary qualities are to be educated and trained, to have increasingly high qualifications, to have better skills and professional capacity, and to be enthusiastic about working with a sense of responsibility. The qualities of the members of society can be partly innate and formed by experience, but it can be said that the majority is created by policies and mechanisms. For example, as mentioned above, Japan has a team of good and honest officials thanks to competitive and public examinations, a worthy treatment regime and a complete legal system that limits unfair decisions by officials; The supervision and criticism of society towards officials are very strict and strict, forcing them to be extremely careful and cautious... Or Korea has a skilled workforce, with an increasingly high level of technology absorption thanks to the policy of focusing on education, training and investing in the right direction in science and technology. In addition, the right mechanism also helps to consolidate the components together instead of existing separately in society. For example, when the state plans a strategic policy, there will be the participation of not only leaders and officials but also intellectuals and businessmen... The opinions of representatives of workers and businessmen who are directly involved are very important; and intellectuals help with in-depth research, criticism, and policy making... All of these create a combined strength to help the state, because the state does not have to understand all issues and all fields.

In the professor's perspective, is social capacity more important than other advantages, such as natural resources? - That's right. In my opinion, social capacity plays a leading role in the development of a nation and people. A country or territory with strong social capacity, even though its natural resources are limited, will still develop rapidly and soon join the first world, such as Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, etc. I have found that the most common quality of the components in Japanese or Korean society is patriotism, national pride and the desire to develop the country, while the individual qualities of each component are as analyzed above. How does the professor view Vietnam's social capacity?

- Relatively speaking, each component of Vietnamese society has necessary qualities. For example, talking about entrepreneurs. Personally, I have met a number of Vietnamese entrepreneurs with a very strong entrepreneurial spirit... But in general, there are still many aspects that need to change, especially the business environment and legal corridor for entrepreneurs to promote their entrepreneurial spirit. In Vietnam, we see that the phenomenon of "asking - giving" in business is still quite common, meaning that seeking special benefits still dominates the business thinking of a part of entrepreneurs. Or the phenomenon that the press calls "huge salaries" of many business leaders. Many leaders of public sector enterprises do not have outstanding business achievements, and even in some cases, they still set themselves too high salaries. Many leaders of private sector enterprises live a lavish life, and their spending habits are even more lavish than many large capitalists in developed countries, so we can assume that they also set themselves very large remuneration or profits. There are cases where a company is growing, but then sells it to a foreign country to get a large sum of money to use for a new life abroad. If Vietnam wants to build social capacity, it needs to promote the business philosophy for society, for the country, for the future of the nation. Another issue as I mentioned above, social capacity is not natural, but there must be a mechanism to form the necessary qualities. In Vietnam, many mechanisms are still inadequate, for example, the issue of recruitment mechanisms, treatment of civil servants, public employees... Low salaries affect the quality of the civil service and are partly the reason for negativity and harassment. An important factor of social capacity is labor. Education and training increase the quality of labor. However, in reality, not every country is successful in providing labor with the capacity to adapt to each stage of development. There are cases of misunderstanding the content of labor quality, thinking that strengthening university and post-graduate education is the right policy even though the economy is still in a low or low-medium stage of development. Previously in Japan, the proportion of postgraduates in the total number of university graduates was relatively small and did not change much, from 1965 to 1975 (the period of miraculous development) was only 4%. The number of people studying at postgraduate level is mostly those who will teach at universities or work at research institutes, including institutes in large companies. Among officials and political leaders, people with a master's or doctorate degree are just exceptions and are not considered a condition for recruitment or promotion. In Vietnam, the positive cultural trait is the love of learning, but along with that is the situation of chasing after degrees. We have many PhDs but lack good engineers, lack of highly skilled workers, people often call it the situation of "too many teachers, not enough workers". These are just a few issues on social capacity in Vietnam. To discuss this issue thoroughly and comprehensively, more in-depth discussions are certainly needed.

Vietnam aims to become an advanced, high-income country by 2045, which is just over 20 years away. What do you think about the advantages and difficulties of Vietnam in achieving this goal? - The world situation is complicated and unpredictable, with confrontations between major powers, wars in Europe, the Middle East, tensions in the Taiwan Strait, etc. In that unpredictable context, thanks to its strategic geopolitical position, Vietnam has advantages for development. First of all, Vietnam is located in a dynamically developing region, one of the gateways to ASEAN and the gateway from ASEAN to China. Vietnam has open foreign relations, is a comprehensive partner with 12 countries, a strategic partner with 18 countries, of which 7 are Comprehensive Strategic Partners and all are major countries. In the recent past, leaders of many major powers have visited Vietnam to upgrade or strengthen relations. These are great advantages for Vietnam, opportunities to receive capital, technology, knowledge, access markets, etc. That is the outside, but internally we also have many bright spots, for example, human resources with a young generation of intelligence, quick access to science and technology. Of course, on the contrary, in the context of globalization, the story of labor migration is a reality. Good land attracts birds, wherever the business environment, working environment, and living environment are better, the elite will tend to settle there. This reality can lead to a brain drain if Vietnam does not pay attention to creating an attractive environment.

In general, in the current geopolitical context, although there are advantages, Vietnam is also facing fierce competition. In a changing world, whoever has the ability to seize opportunities quickly will have the advantage. In the face of changes in the market and technology, the state as well as enterprises must have quick responses. However, in terms of the state, the decision-making and policy implementation process in Vietnam is slow, sometimes leading to missed opportunities. Vietnam's investment environment has improved a lot in recent years, but the level of attractiveness is not superior to many other countries, even compared to some countries in the region. Therefore, when the major powers confront each other, the investment flow shifts, but whether it moves to Vietnam or to where depends on the investment environment. Vietnam's economy also has problems such as slow disbursement of public investment capital, investment efficiency is not as high as required, low labor productivity, etc. The majority of enterprises are small and medium, even micro-small. These businesses face many difficulties in accessing resources and seeking support from authorities. I know of cases where businesses are eligible for preferential loans, enjoying interest rates about 2 percentage points lower than market interest rates. However, to enjoy this policy, businesses have to complete many procedures, paperwork, and spend time going through many doors... so they decide "it is better to borrow at market interest rates". This is an issue related to the social capacity and sense of responsibility of officials in supporting businesses to develop the economy and revive the country.

From the development lessons of Japan, what is your assessment of the necessary factors for Vietnam to achieve the goal of becoming an advanced, high-income country by 2045? - The characteristics of Vietnam's current economic structure such as the proportion of agriculture in the gross domestic product, or the proportion of the individual economy, of small and medium enterprises... are very similar to Japan in the mid-1950s, when Japan began its miraculous development period. With a spectacular development period, averaging 10% per year and lasting nearly 20 years, Japan has transformed from a middle-income country to an industrial power, rising to the position of a high-income country, realizing the dream and goal of "catching up with advanced Western countries" of its predecessors in the Meiji period. Of course, the international context and many of the initial conditions of Japan 60-70 years ago were not the same as Vietnam today, but it can be said that the basic factors that make up the success of economic development are universal in all eras. In addition to the "social capacity" factor that I analyzed above, there is another important related factor: the "developmental state". The developmental state takes national and ethnic interests as the top priority, from which it sets out the development goal of making the people rich and the country strong, and creates mechanisms to motivate and promote resources to achieve the goal. In a world where the order has been established by advanced countries and is disadvantageous to underdeveloped countries, the leaders of the latecomers must have enough intelligence and courage to find a strategy that suits the interests of their country. According to the World Bank's classification, Vietnam is about to reach the upper middle-income stage, which can be achieved before 2030. Vietnam's goal is to become a high-income country by 2045, which means going from upper middle-income to high-income in about 17-18 years. In terms of time, it is also the same as Japan's miraculous development period. During this period, if Vietnam grows by an average of 7-8% each year, it can achieve the set goal.

In the economic field, in Vietnam there has been a heated discussion about "growth model innovation" for a long time, aiming for rapid and sustainable growth. The mainstream opinion in the policy community is that Vietnam must shift from an input-based growth model (investment, capital accumulation) to an innovation-based model to avoid the middle-income trap and successfully achieve the goal of becoming an advanced, high-income country by 2045. I have a different approach. From Japan's experience, I believe that capital accumulation and innovation are mutually related and both play an important role in the process of overcoming the middle-income trap and moving towards high-income development. The related issues are economic restructuring, market reform, production and training of high-quality human resources. In my opinion, any stage of development requires investment and capital accumulation, and it cannot be said that when renewing the growth model, we move from one state to another without ignoring input factors. Saying this is to see that from now until 2045, input factors (investment, capital accumulation) and innovation are both important. When it comes to implementing national-level goals, it requires all components of that country to be a united bloc. The state apparatus operates effectively, in which the capacity and qualities of political leaders and officials play a decisive role. Everyone must work hard with the thought that in 20 years, we will be proud to witness a powerful, prosperous Vietnam, standing shoulder to shoulder with advanced countries in the world. Nearly ten years ago, I wrote an article inspired by the poem of King Tran Thai Tong "The old soldier with silver hair / forever tells the story of Nguyen Phong". These are two verses about the pride of soldiers who participated in defending the country, fighting against invaders, when they got old they felt happy and peaceful with what they had done for the country. I hope that in 20-30 years there will also be generations of white-haired Vietnamese people who are proud of their contributions, proud that the country has joined the ranks of advanced countries.

As an intellectual who has made great contributions to "bridging" the relationship between the two countries, especially economic cooperation, what do you think about the areas that can promote cooperation between Vietnam and Japan in the coming time? - On a macro level, the two countries can expand cooperation in new areas such as innovation, technology transfer, digital transformation, green transformation, human resource training, etc. Going into specifics, I see several areas that need attention as follows. The first is supporting industry. Japan is in a state of population aging, while their small and medium enterprises are very strong, mastering many high-tech fields. For example, in Tokyo, there is a district that gathers many small and medium-sized enterprises that own high technology. Due to the aging population, many businesses are in a situation where there are no heirs to their family's technology and techniques. For a long time, I have proposed Vietnam to strengthen cooperation with Japan in the transfer of these technologies to small and medium -sized businesses of Vietnam. In other words, Vietnam's small and medium -sized businesses will receive technology and techniques from businesses without an heir in Japan. Secondly, in terms of official development support (ODA), over time, Vietnam must gradually "graduate ODA", that is, do not need to use ODA anymore or receive ODA to a limited level, only choose the very necessary fields. Thirdly, in order to shift the industrial structure, Vietnam needs to call for investment in high -tech industries. In this direction, Vietnam can set up special industrial parks for Japanese businesses with high technology investment. For example, Japanese ODA can only apply to these industrial parks, and through ODA to attract high -tech investment from Japan.

Fourthly, in addition to the economy, Japan is currently implementing policies on security and defense cooperation (OSA) with some countries (on strengthening defense capacity, coast patrol ...). This is an area where the two countries can strengthen cooperation. Vietnam - Japan relations are developing very well. Within 10 years, the two countries have upgraded the relationship from "The deep strategic partner for peace and prosperity of Asia" became "a comprehensive strategic partner for peace and prosperity in Asia and around the world". Umeda Kunio, former Japanese ambassador in Vietnam, once told me that Vietnam now for Japan is the most important country in ASEAN. He wrote a book about the relationship between Vietnam and Japan, which offers the message of Japan and Vietnam as "Natural Allies", which means that allies are not based on the official agreement but based on high reliability and willingness to help each other. These are very favorable conditions to further promote cooperation between the two countries in all fields. Sincerely thank Professor Tran Van Tho.

Content: Vo Thanh

Photo: Huu Nghi

Video: Pham Tien, Minh Quang

Design: Thuy Tien

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